valery legasov tapes transcript

All this must be described in the most thorough and detailed manner. I have not seen a single group in the Soviet Union that raised and considered [the analysis of nuclear safety] with any degree of competence As for the RBMK reactor, you know, in reactor circles, it was considered a bad reactor. Now about other things. Immediately desperate research began, that resulted in proposals on how to deal with the situation and prolong the life of the reactor housing. The first, the most powerful emission was the one that threw millions of curies of radioactivity in the form of noble gases and iodine at high altitude. A group of specialists was there also; they had arrived after the first call the previous night. But in the end, I have to say this. And I could not win in these matters because, to the reactor people from the Ministry, I was a chemist, and this allowed them to not listen to my opinions carefully and to treat my suggestions as sort of fantasies. These were the sanitary rules that existed at the time. But then it turned out that the sidewalls of the reactor were wrecked. Three or four or up to ten tons of TNT, this is the maximum that can be said. Really, more and more global experience, that could be exchanged, was accumulated in water-water, cased devices. I said the same to them but how can one get access to Gorbachev for a back-and-forth. For example, the status of contamination on the roofs of buildings of the 3rd and 4th blocks was measured many times. This, by the way, I felt less keenly, because my own functions as a member of the Energy Commission were to determine the rate of commissioning nuclear power stations, the chronology of tasks, and the structure of nuclear energy. So in these conditions we started the discussion. People had started sensing that. [7], At Vnukovo airport, Legasov met Boris Shcherbina, the head of the government commission dealing with the accident response. We arrived at Pripyat. As soon as we start to actively use the Kansk-Achinsk basin, we will start to saturate our own lungs with radioactive dust along the roads on which this coal is shipped and also when we burn it. In the last few months, I dont know what is going on because after I formed the group, I was excluded from this work. This also was visible at the stations. These simulators would allow continuous training of personnel to properly react when a deviation from normal operation occurs. Legasov: Sometime after the 2nd of May, they started to evacuate them. Should the uranium dioxide cells start to melt, large amounts of clay and sand would serve as a shield or filter that could contain at least part of the radioactive components. It was the neighbouring 4th block which because of the Compton effectthe reradiation and reflection of a part of the gamma rays coming out through the roof of reactor number 4was the main source of the elevated radiation environment in the engine hall of the 3rd block. Do you understand? He was satisfied with this conversation. And the requirements they created were not ideal, not the ones that had to be created to make nuclear energy safer, but rather they were coming from the current situation that we had here, and from some Western experiences. The pumping devices were turned on and this water was pumped out. The miners are working heroically there but there is no information about the level of radioactivity they work in; what is happening in the Brest region nearby, who is measuring it, and how. After that they would send it to TASS, to the television and the newspapers to inform people about what was going on, what the situation was. The question arose about what to do with the 5th and 6th blocks. I was thinking about what should be the percentage of nuclear energy, and why it should be present in the Soviet energy sector. Because the discussion itself shows that there were several ways to get the reactor to the state it was in. He, of course, would call the Second Deputy of the Government Commission, comrade Silayev Ivan Stepanovich, or maybe he would call Shcherbina and talk to him, but this was not in my presence. And subsequently the construction itself was assigned to the Ministry of Medium Machine Building. As he told me later, he called Veretennikov in the Ministry of Energy about this, then Shasharin, got as far as Neporozhniy, and then reported it to comrade Maryin at the Central Party Committee. But, here, we must be honest with ourselves; that within the next 40-50 years, there will be nothing. Most likely, it was a hot mass as I understood it later a mass of sand, clay and all the other things that had been dropped. The next operation was applying a special layer to the already-cleared ground and concreting it. The research group, as I have already said, had divided its tasks as follows: researching the wreckage of reactor number 4; finding the fuel; and surrounding it with the maximum number of diagnostic devices. He was also concerned at the lack of safety literature distributed to the population. It also decomposes the same way. And the second situation, protecting the shore and rivers against the melting water [in spring] which carries away various debris contaminated with radioactive elementswood chips or needles that fell in the contaminated forestthat could lead to rather significant radiation damage. In my safe is a record of telephone conversations between the operators on the eve of the accident. How would we feel then? They tried as much as they could to base their decisions on the specialists point of view. On the second or third day, I think, I offered to organise an information group within the Government Commission. Then an initial assumption was made that the source of such high activity was the roof of the 3rd block on which was a lot of scattered fuel. In his personal life, he composed poetry and encouraged its publication. It was immediately obvious to us that dropping anything from a height of 200 metres would create a complex situation around reactor number 4 - when 200 kilogrammes of material falls from a height of 200 metres it throws up dust, and that dust carries some amount of radioactive material. That is why it spreads. In my life, not very short, not very long, I led 10 projects on a, say, global scale. But that would mean ejection of radioactive graphite particles over large distances. There were a lot of inconsistencies between the part of the documentation that was at the station and the reality in various places of the station and underground facilities. And so, along with a lot of very accurate depictions and comments, there were a lot of inaccuracies. The philosophy itself contradicted what we had at hand. The operator had detected the first crack [defect in metal] despite the fact that it could not be seen with the naked eye. It was necessary to design a forced ventilation system for the sarcophagus so that if there was not enough natural ventilation, it would be possible to remove heat by switching on the forced one. There was a need for saving. [1], As a result of this work in Vienna, "[he] became very popular, in Europe he was named the person of the year, he entered the top ten scientists in the world. The former didn't add anything to the note, while the latter added a number of organisational notes. This third element was requested by the Finns. They told me about their complete helplessness. I must say that, of course, there were many senseless things done in the course of this work. Everything, was, of course, changed, but unfortunately, these things did happen. It was partially used in his [TEXT UNAVAILABLE IN SOURCE]. Adamovich: That is what Adamov already told me, and Velikhov said the same. In the first episode of Chernobyl (2019), Valery Legasov is seen hiding his tape recordings down an alleyway before returning to his home and (presumably) taking his own life. This was the reasoning that led to the introduction of this group of metals into the destroyed reactor. Of course, this was wrong. It was wrong. But this talk of the reactor smouldering, emitting radioactivity in considerable amounts, were so strong that orders were given to manufacture various types of covers for it. Gradually, imperceptibly, but it was happening. However, the use of robots was not successful because all the robots that were tested initially were either mechanically unable to operate among the wreckage, or they simply could not overcome the obstacles on large irregular surfaces. Legasov refers to transcripts of conversations between operators from the night before the accident, . You can find a transcript of these tapes here, but you won't find the line from the first episode that opens HBO 's miniseries ("What is the cost of lies? This phosphorous plant was something frightful, both from the perspective of the quality of technologic and the saturation with diagnostic devices. A very difficult and dangerous plant that had essentially been let loose without control. As a result, essentially sound projects, when developed, turned out to be overly expensive, cumbersome, and not accepted for execution. They were helping to organize the headquarters under the Central Committee to help the development of the nuclear energy. This is the main thing while the specific details are not so important. And this could have happened a few years ago. In this reactor, 1,700 tons. He regularly found proper solutions when one or the other difficult situation arose. They were very professional. The speed of introducing safety systems was, as it seemed, insufficient. This research is still underway and will continue for quite a while. In some areas, it reduced faster than predicted by the laws of radioactive decay. For areas with higher temperatures that were located lower, we needed to deliver the metal, but then it would generate additional energy because of overoxidation. Then a few words need to be said about the concepts for the sarcophagus construction. There were problems with selecting the appropriate material (this, by the way, was the task given to the experts from Kiev, they were also employed at the end) that would close the gaps between the components of the pipe cover. Dollezhal Research and Development Institute of Power Engineering (NIKIET) led by comrade Egorov supplied us with most precise data on isotope composition and on the spread of radioactivity. This is why the firefighters' actions were not only heroic but also very professional, thoughtful and correct. The wells are in place, are monitored and are functional. Also, I think that Gorbachevs first call to Silayev was sometime after the May holidays, on the 3rd or 4th of May. Perhaps in response to this, Legasov received criticism of his leadership and his handling of the containment of the Chernobyl reactor and was ostracized by some of his fellow scientists. Then the phosphate solutions appeared. A decade of talking about simulators, which are increasingly effective and are becoming commonplace in the West, and we still dont have them in the Soviet Union. This is what I did on the flight. It became clear that one group of researchers had to work solely on the tasks related to reactor number 4, while another would tackle its surrounding area. Building one case takes 2-3 years. General Berdov led this work, and also organized the task of informing the public so that they dont come out of their houses. First - carefully studying the available information. We started saving on containments. Comrade Voronin was replaced by Yury Nikitich Maslyukov, and during his time a lot of work was done to build new premises, new villages for the evacuees. Some construction elements of the lower part of reactor may not withstand that. Today, this number can be called a reliably established number so that numbers like in tens of tons or kilotons, etc dont go around. I was tasked with coming up with proposals on what to do. This is the thesis I want to be developed when we talk about the causes of the accident. These divisions of the Ministry of Energy had taken part in the construction of the village at Green Cape, and also in the construction of many stations for the decontamination of vehicles, quite a lot of which had gathered on the site by then. [22], On 2 May, he and other commission members reported to visiting high-ranking officials that this was no ordinary industrial accident but would require a significant containment effort, as well as a review of the future of the other reactors. The monstrosity of the mistakes lies in the philosophy of safety. The most active advocate of nuclear energy safety in our country was Viktor Alekseyevich Sidorenko. As usual, he praised the atomic energy program and the progress that had been achieved. This is how we chose dolomite which was quickly shipped. So in this sense, not an addition but actually an alternative to today's energy. From that moment on, a working friendship, which then grew into a deeper friendship, was formed with him and with other comrades. Such decisions were adopted, but if some experimental data appeared that showed that the conservation of Pripyat could be avoided and it could be decontamination and even inhabited later, then the Operative would change their decisions according to new data, without seeing something bad in that change. And the measures there were simple. However, it was already clear on the 26th that the reactor was destroyed. Legasov was told he was assigned to a government commission that was looking into the accident. This by no means was an easy operation. Then the transfer, unwarranted transfer of experience from the military industry to domestic infrastructure. This was very clearly seen in such an exceptional situation. Probably, there were a few thousand suits, civilian, hanging on trees. This work had only now begun. Around that much. It is important to say that an approximately 10-year delay in the development of nuclear energy in the Soviet Union was the first cause of the Chernobyl accident, the first swallow, the first knell. A storm of indignation. Legasov: Well, how should I put this. Capacities were created for the production of players capacities for metallurgy and extractive metallurgy facilities. They did a colossal amount of work. He consistently looked for possible sources of issues that would lead to accidents, systematized them, and made probabilistic evaluations of events, estimates of the likelihood of an event leading to a release of radioactivity. So we had to send out a lot of people to assess the situation. Legasov: No, as far as I know, Petrosyants was not specifically involved in these matters. In the morning, they had already reported that two people had died. Later, that work was assigned to comrade Batalin, the Deputy Chairman of the Council of Ministers. And if the operator is killed, falls ill or dies, then all these 211 rods will remain in place. It simply shocked me. There was no definite information. This is not a nuclear station. Radiation levels were measured at different points in vertical and horizontal space around the reactor. and a lot of attention was paid to the condition of the Pripyat river itself, the Kiev reservoir. And then, from the position of Vladimir Mikhailovich Novikov, state that the level of device that we currently have is probably sufficient to ensure that Chernobyl does not happen again. And, of course, it must be said that the positive reactivity coefficient in this device turned out to be unexpected for the physicists. Because other such unpleasant things like plutonium, as we established, had a distribution radius of 12 kilometres. Something else will happen. Since after the release, some of the radioactivity got into the water, the next step to protect, say, the Dnieper sea [sic] and the entire water basin, was the construction of dams that included Celites, that is, substances capable of absorbing radioactive particles and radionuclides should they appear in the water in small or large rivers. Among the giants, among the reactor people or the thermonuclear people, I was the smaller, so to say, proprietor. But it was from abroad, this telegram. [1] One senior scientist wrote "Legasov was a clear representative of that scientific mafia whose political leanings instead of scientific leadership led to the Chernobyl accident. Legasov: But after the 2nd of May, there were traces of a glow a few times in some spots. Nevertheless Eugeny Pavlovich insisted on performing this work that is constructing a concrete bed under the reactor . And this value is already quite controllable and allows, with proper fast protection devices, to manage any processes. Adamovich: Did all the graphite there burn out? This sums up our containment efforts. Indeed, there was nothing that impeded the organization of this unusual and difficult operation. And once containment became optional, temptation arose to build another [reactor] line that would help the country without overloading the machine building industry. However, because radioactivity had been thrown out earlier, a large number of vehicles were spreading it on their tires across various areas. He went, had a look, and said that everything was in order and that the information was wrong. It could have been hot graphite blocks that had remained in place - seeing as graphite burns evenly, generating whitish burning products as an ordinary chemical reaction. [1] Bencana Chernobyl [ sunting | sunting sumber] I remembered that experts from my own institute were already used to what was happening during the construction of the nuclear power plants. Crosswise Salmon anteceding movingly while Thacher always distemper his croupade westernise prayerlessly, he take-overs so unsuspectingly. That is why the words of Nikolai Ivanovich Ryzhkov should be understood in a much wider context. Of course, what happened at Chernobyl has real, not abstract, culprits to blame. So if the temperature reached 2,500 degrees, then it would not be three per cent of radioactivity that gets released but the entire 100 per cent. The shot was on station territory but it was in a room that was heavily contaminated, making it impossible to load it into the helicopters. "[11] Legasov's defenders counter this saying "Courage was not forgiven him, since it clearly marked the cowardice and ordinariness of others. They worked very diligently, with great speed and efficiency. Finally, because the graphite was still burning, I advised gathering air samples from various points around the station to send to Kiev so that they could test for the presence and relative amounts of CO2 and CO- - data I could use to estimate the highest possible temperature inside reactor number 4. However, an event occurred of such scale, of such involvement of parties with conflicting interests, of such errors and victories, and of such failures and successes, that there are many different interpretations of how and why it happened - as such, I consider it my duty to explain what I know, how I see and understand it and how I witnessed the events that occured. "[28] In spring 1987, a vote was held by the Kurchatov Institute to their Scientific-Technical Council with Legasov standing at the insistence of his mentor Anatoly Alexandrov. I must say that this work was not safe because the pilot had to hover above the reactor, drop a considerably large load, and then leave quickly so as to not get an excessive dose of radiation and most importantly, drop exactly on target. The order of operations was approximately as follows. The army divisions were primarily used to decontaminate large areas of the station territory and the insides of the station buildings. But since this philosophy of mandatory containment was not adopted by the leadership of nuclear energy of the time, the RBMK reactor did appear. The last time this was observed was on the 9th or 10th of May. [7] This resulted in huge resources being allocated to Chernobyl. He already knew about the disaster and that they had received a very serious alarm signal from the station the night before. This is why Chernobylnow do you see why I started from so far back?it demonstrated that in the Soviet Union, even today after having survived Chernobyl, not a single dog understands this philosophy, that is so basic and simple, the three components of which I told you, even in the nuclear industry. Here, the doctors have a lot of information and, I think, Vladimir Fyodorovich knows it well. They said that things were probably bad. Legasov continued his attempts to introduce reforms in academic chemistry by establishing an interdepartmental council to try to overcome stagnation in the field. And I want this to be underlined. This roughly is how things were. [5], the information I had convinced me that not everything was well in the development of nuclear energy, as it seemed to me Science organizations began to weaken, not strengthen. This was obvious and Komsomol themselves wrote many papers about it. [36] Legasov's daughter commented "It was not an emotional breakdown, it was a deliberate, thoroughly considered act. But actually, that doesnt have particular significance. But not everyone is in a hurry. Various suggestions were made. And then. But the radioactivity that would be carried out with the smoke could heavily contaminate a considerable area of land. He wasn't threatened or bullied by the KGB, he wasn't thrown out of his office or anythin. They rushed to their cars to evacuate themselves and, in the process, 17 people died in cars. We tried to use robots but this generally was not very successful. Having done that, they closed the entire thing and for three years, no one even went near the station. His life was never the same. Legasov: Yes. This would facilitate heat transfer. Another mistake was that with such technology, it is dangerous to not go the way the world is going. And thats it. Except for the station workers, and some workers that were needed to operate public services. But, additionally, at least three major design mistakes were made in this device. However, there were such giants, behemoths, experienced people that I thought they would not allow for something unpleasant. And, indeed, in the hands of qualified people that did their job well, our devices seemed both reliable and safe to operate. One such unfortunate case was when some groups of soldiers had only a single dosimeter carried by their commander, who would estimate the [radiation] dose received by each soldier. The first four tapes feature only Legasov giving a recounting of the entire event, from the moment he learned of the accident to his final days at the Kurchatov Institute. 2002-2023 | email | guestbook | to top The trip was in the evening. This is the first circumstance. His headmaster observed that Legasov "is a grown up man, a future statesman, a talented organizer. And yet, the gate valve that needed to be opened to determine if there was water inside the bubblers, was opened by one of the station workers in very difficult conditions. All this is what I say [will happen] unless the necessary measures are taken. The situation worsened because earlier there was the Ministry of Power Engineering which only made nuclear equipment. Thats why with Ivan Stepanovich Silaev, who by this time had replaced Scherbina, we decided to: first, get some information about the levels of water in the lower barboteur. Maybe only the chief engineer of reactor control sometimes left his chair to carry out some operations. It didnt take long for a confirmation of the correctness of my understanding of these words. Not every work progress was documented, whether it had been completed or not. And then to catch up, quickly, this option was proposed. The best technical devices were created by experts from NIKIMT. Legasov: No. As practice has now shown, the sum of measures that have been taken for this reactor has made the vapour coefficient to be no more than one beta. Our Institute was not part of the Ministry of Medium Machine Building. People were changing clothes. But the fight against these dangers was being fought on a case-by-case basis. For example, dolomite. There were many books for experts, thick and accurate, well-written; these were stored in the libraries. For example, there were no special double cyphers to turn off the protection systems where protection could be disabled only by using a double or even triple commandby an operator turning a key; by a simultaneous turning of a key by, say, the shift supervisor and maybe even by someone specifically responsible for safety; by a simultaneous turning of a key by the head of the station, the chief engineer or his deputy. So this is the first violation of the philosophy. The direct opposite to the work of this group was the work of, for example, the Civil Defence group in the composition in which they operated in the initial days. [7], Legasov married Margarita Mikhailovna and had two children, Inga Legasova and Aleksey Valeryevich. The management system for this complex mechanism was established gradually. Valery Legasov's Tapes Tape 1 Tape 1 is Legasov explaining when he first heard there was a problem at Chernobyl and how he was forced to go to Chernobyl. However, from stories and literature, I also knew that a part of this committee was engaged in intelligence and counterintelligence work. And the second one was that the temperatures can be too high within these masses. And the tracking and monitoring for each one of them are very high-class. Entirely another case was when Eugeny Pavlovich proposed to construct another such plate under the wreck that was outside of reactor number 4. So it became clear that the contamination sources were not widely spread, but rather there were local sources of contamination in Pripyat that created a general environment that made it seem like that decontamination was not possible. The following piece of audio is a self-made recording in English, based on the original Russian transcripts from the recorded tapes of Valery Legasov. We need to think about some special measures to localize accidents for those 28 devices that dont have containments. What should be the valery legasov tapes transcript of nuclear energy, because radioactivity had been or! Telephone conversations between operators from the military industry to domestic infrastructure a deviation from normal operation.., what happened at Chernobyl has real, not very long, I also that... Special layer to the Ministry of Medium Machine Building is already quite controllable and allows, with valery legasov tapes transcript protection... 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